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Commons:Categories for discussion/2022/10/Category:Heimatmuseums

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Category:Heimatmuseums

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It seems to be a synonym of Category:Local museums in Germany (it is also a subcategory of), and - at least from the heading - a mixture with also non-Germany museums. It is non-english with english plural. I propose to merge it to Category:Local museums in Germany and delete this cat to avoid further entries. Herzi Pinki (talk) 07:25, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the content is a disaster. Still, disagree on a full deletion: "Heimatmuseum <town name>" implies something different than "Stadtmuseum" or "Ortsmuseum", and is a subcategory of "Heimat" which is wrong to apply to other local museums. Just an example, Fröndenberg/Ruhr has two local museums, one about the former industrial history of the town, and one Heimatmuseum about all other local history. I see plenty other local museums that are not "Heimat".
  • Counter-proposal 1: Make it a definition that only museums that are explicitly named Heimatmuseum/Heimatstube/Heimathaus/etc may be included, and that they are required to additionally be categorized under "Local museums of Germany/Austria/Switzerland". In that turn, move "Heimatmuseums in Bavaria" towards "Local museums in Germany". Then start recategorizing as per the new definitions.
  • Counter-proposal 2: Categorize them all under the local museums as per the original idea. "Heimatmuseums" (and/or "Heimatmuseum" without plural-s) are kept but as disambiguation category pointing towards "local museums of...", so that future editors are guided towards the correct category. That disambiguation would also be categorized under "Heimat", again to point users to the correct cat-tree.
Do you agree with one of the proposals? I'm not sure which I would prefer, so I detailed both. Enyavar (talk) 07:39, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete "Heimatmuseums" as the plural form is nonsense in the linguistic sense; it simply a totally incorrect plural form. Delete this category completely, no redirect and move all content to Category:Local museums in Germany. --Msb (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, linguistically problematic, maybe  Keep as singular? de:Heimatmuseum shows that this is a subgroup of local museums (distinct from de:Stadtmuseum (Category:City museums, just for example). Having more experience now, I see both of my proposals last year as not the best idea: Instead Move all Germany-related content that is name-related to "Heimat" (-museum/-haus/-stube)" to Category:Heimatmuseum in Germany (same for "in Switzerland/Austria"), move all other content to local museums. --Enyavar (talk) 08:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Does it make sense to combine German terms and English terms in this way? "Heimatmuseum in Germany" sounds strange. Also, I can't quite follow your reasoning that a "Heimatmuseum" is something different from what is called a "local museum" in English. Msb (talk) 14:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Each Heimatmuseum is a local museum, but not the other way around; and we have enough items here to make "Heimatmuseum" a reasonably large sub-category. Local museum is a much broader term, it comprises of anything local: a museum only about the local factory (Zigarrenfabrikmuseum, Industriemuseum) or even a local prison, like this castle/former prison: These are not about Heimat. Neither are Eulenspiegelmuseum (local legend) or Alamannenmuseum (local ancient tribe). The Heimatmuseum is usually located in smaller towns or villages, has displays of ordinary/folksy items collected from the region (instead of highly valuable objects), and has a tiny budget and no real theme/focus. Category:City museums are larger and usally also have more non-Heimat-related stuff. To distinguish one type of museum from the other, I really suggest just going by the names of the museum: Stadtmuseum, Heimatmuseum, Dorfmuseum; and anything else would be "local".
Also, there are plenty categories that mix languages, Maps of Landkreis.., Gravestone of Friedhof.. etc. But not in the same word, so I agree: no plural-S, please: Either "Heimatmuseum in Austria" or better, "Heimatmuseen in Austria". Best, --Enyavar (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your examples of language mixes are not striking since they reuse nomina propria of subjects. Hence "Heimatmuseum" is of different value here. All in all, I support to retransfer them to the "Local museum"-category branch. Your hybrid solutions with some variations of the german word "heimatmuseum" is not a good solution in my opinion. It has great potential to create confusion and inconsistencies in the category system. Alternatively, could you create an article on Commons that addresses this? Msb (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, maybe we should wait for another opinion, since I don't exactly get why you object to my proposal here. "Article" on Commons? You mean, a better category description text? Or do you mean, post the question on the Village pump? --Enyavar (talk) 19:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Enyavar: Would Category:Folk museums be a fitting English name to use for these kinds of museums? ReneeWrites (talk) 07:53, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh! Yes. Yes I think it would. "Folk museums in Germany/Austria/Switzerland" could hold all these specific Heimatmuseum categories. --Enyavar (talk) 08:01, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then I think we're very close to a resolution. @Mosbatho and Herzi Pinki: would you agree with "Folk museums" being used for these types of categories, and Heimatmuseum(s) being turned into a category redirect? ReneeWrites (talk) 08:11, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Mosbatho, ReneeWrites, and Enyavar:
  • Google KI supposes: Ein Heimatmuseum kann im Englischen mit "local museum", "local history museum" oder "heritage museum" übersetzt werden, wobei "local museum" die gängigste und treffendste Übersetzung ist. Die Begriffe "local history museum" und "heritage museum" betonen stärker den historischen oder kulturellen Bezug des Museums - local museum. Folk museum on WD folk museum (Q25047682) is translated with Volkskundemuseum, which acc. to de:Volkskundemuseum is something different than Heimatmuseum. I do not feel comfortable with the term folk museum for Heimatmuseum (though I'm not a native speaker). For me the scope of a local museum is local (e.g. locally famous daughters, local history, local traditions, local architecture, etc.), while a folk museum is concentrated on a topic (i.e. folk - whatever that is in inter-cultural context). A local museum tends more to just collect arbitrary stuff with local relations, while a folk museum has a topic and must be actively curated. Btw. we already do have category:Folk museums (which is rather specific and only available in a few countries), category:Folk art museums & category:Folklore museums & category:Rural history museums (the later resonates at most with my understanding of local museums in Austria's countryside).
  • there seems to be a wide spectrum of what is displayed in a Heimatmuseum, folk museum would narrow the scope.
  • Category:Heimatmuseums is purely related to German museums, no need to roll out a global solution.
  • I would go with category:Museums in Germany named Heimatmuseum instead of Category:Heimatmuseums, and keep them all as local museums.
  • (it is not about individual categories like category:Heimatmuseum xxx if this is the perfect proper name of a museum)
--Herzi Pinki (talk) 12:38, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure. Google's AI seems to be splitting hairs a bit much, when it doesn't think "Folk" compares to "Heimat" in this regard.
The concept of "that old spinning wheel belongs in a museum" is not unique to Germany. If "Folk museums" are only found as categories for select countries, does not mean that those countries do not have folk museums. Instead, I would suspect similar definition problems like ours here, and that people are not aware of this category. It's not as if I had known about "folk museums" being a category, before.
On the "local" thing: still indifferent. Having been to many cities in Germany, I visited local city history museums and local Heimat museums, and I have to say that these are different kinds of museums. The latter is the rural museum type. However, let me tell you, even if they just display lots of old iron tools, they are still curated. You wouldn't believe how many people want to donate their old spinning wheels.
The en-WP article says that a folk museum is dealing with folk culture and heritage. And that it is usually the type of local museum that a rural area would support. That last part is a common theme in most Heimatmuseums in Germany as well.
"Folk" is, importantly, different from "Volk" (people), and rather implies (your local) parentage, heritage, inheritance. Any stuff from your folks (family) that you wish to preserve, could be placed in a "folk museum". It is "folksy". Related to "folk", but distinct, is "folklore" (what Google's AI aptly called "Volkskunde"), but here on Commons the Folklore museums are merely a subcategory of the Folk museums. A folklore museum would follow a didactic approach and would have a cultural theme. Also, Folk art museums focus on the arts. A "simple" folk museum just appears to collect a bunch of old everyday stuff for display. And I'm sure there is a rather large grey zone of overlap.
The other term, "Heimat" (bad translation: homedom) implies heritage less by family relations, but by local soil; and also implies a "commoners" side of approach by the museum curators. Your "local palace museum" does not usually fit with the theme of a Heimatmuseum. In the end, a Heimatmuseum usually appears to collect a bunch of old everyday stuff for display. Including the grey zone, again.
So the nuances about the terminology are not quite the same, but if we're striving for a global balance, the "folk museum" appears to be the best equivalent of the "Heimatmuseum" - for comparison Italy, Britain and German
So I would suggest:
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